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Old 05-11-2018, 12:02 AM   #1
kojiiro
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Halp! Im stuck!

Ok so ive done 14 trackdays here now. Still on my little 250. Listening to them KH podcasts and what not. I think I am stuck. When I started about a year ago, I was at 1:52. Now at 1:31 as my personal best on this track. I saw a video of this guy on a Ninja 250 and that guy averages 1:17 seconds lol. I think he might actually be a club racer though, so I am not sure if its fair to try and strive for the level of riding that he is at. Anyway here is a video of this guy. Do any of you guys track specifically a 250? looking for tips. I will link my slow as video in a second. On the bright side, Ive been pulling similar lap times to some guys on liter bikes (just regular weekend track day riders), but still.

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Old 05-11-2018, 12:07 AM   #2
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Heres slow me. Most of the riders are on liter bikes or 600's. The few on 250's are mostly racers. Someone help!


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Last edited by kojiiro; 05-11-2018 at 12:10 AM.
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Old 05-11-2018, 12:36 AM   #3
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LOL wtf, look how easy the liter bikes make it look. Similar times, slower corner speeds, but so much acceleration:

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Old 05-11-2018, 03:27 PM   #4
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What do you feel is holding you back? The bike or you? I think you'll have time everywhere (disclosure I haven't watched any of the videos) but 14 s off over a 77 s lap is 20%.

For me what was best was always to focus on one thing at a time. For a track day, I'd go out and only work on my turn in points. Simplifying made progress easier.

If you can, find a slightly faster than you 250 racer during a track day and try to stick with him to see where he's faster.

In lieu of that, you could go through your video and his video side by side. you could make your own sectors and use a stopwatch and compare your sectors to his, maybe you're losing more time in one sector compared to another.

And go through his video corner by corner with yours. Compare his and your 1) entry speed 2) on brake marker 3) turn in point 4) off brake marker 5) apex 6) slowest point of the corner 7) roll on marker

4/5/6 might be in a different order depending on the corner (you'll understand this if you listen to KH). Maybe try and do this for 1-2 corners, then the next time out only focus on those corners and see the results.
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Old 05-11-2018, 07:24 PM   #5
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I don't like that your reservoir looks overfilled. It might just be the angle...... IDK.

From looking at some of your videos it seems that you are entering the corners in the wrong gear witch means you are exiting a gear to tall. You have a 250 you afford to let the RPM's drop that much specially leading to a long straight.

It also seems that you are coasting too much. i would focus on entering the corners in the right gear first then practice on using more brakes on corner entry.
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Old 05-12-2018, 09:12 AM   #6
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I agree with Pearl zx6 in that corners should be your focus, anyone one's focus.
Approach line, entering speed/gear, staying on the throttle in the turn (not letting it close completely), exit speed/gear, body position, confidence (calming your mind), etc. Being able to this without anyone else on the track would help you focus even more, but of course that is an opportunity for only a few.

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Old 05-13-2018, 05:18 PM   #7
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The video of that 250 rider, I am pretty sure he is a racer. Am I setting too high of a goal by trying to get to where he is at? My best time in this track with my 250 was 1:32. His average seems ro be 1:17.
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Old 05-15-2018, 08:29 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kojiiro View Post
The video of that 250 rider, I am pretty sure he is a racer. Am I setting too high of a goal by trying to get to where he is at? My best time in this track with my 250 was 1:32. His average seems ro be 1:17.
No! but, first you have to get into the 30's, then high 29's, 28's and so on. Without actually watching someone ride its hard to give any actual criticism . I am still discouraged to give advise because I am still trying to figure out this stuff myself. Fact is that your are 17 seconds off that guys pace, that's a lot of room for improvement. If you want to make big improvements fast, look for some professional coaching.

With being in the right gear on exit I am sure you can drop at least 3 seconds without changing much of the other stuff.
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Old 05-16-2018, 03:30 PM   #9
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As Ivan said above, fastest way to improve and pick up pace safely is hire a professional coach. If you cannot afford 1 on 1, enroll in a small group (and learn from the video feedback that they give you). If you can, do a two-up ride with your coach. You will feel the way things flow smoothly when you are doing things right.
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One persistent mistake I see riders make when trying to ride faster: Using too much lean, too late in the corner, well after the apex of a turn. This is precisely where you want to be on the gas not increasing lean. Remedy: use reference points for tip in and use a strong countersteer input to quickly flick the bike to max lean at tip in
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Old 05-16-2018, 03:50 PM   #10
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Every track has 2,3, maybe 4 vital points (curves leading to a big long straight). Vital points put your motorcycle in a position to accelerate fiercely. By getting to full throttle earlier and longer, you spend more time accelerating. If you mess up these, you lose tons of time. Conversely if you nail these vital turns well, you will run a decent laptime even if you are making mistakes on the other turns. Lesson here is focus on these turns where you can make up the most time in your lap. Learn how to look at a track map and identify these turns immediately.

Last edited by D675R; 05-16-2018 at 04:03 PM.
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Old 06-07-2018, 12:39 AM   #11
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Revisiting this. I went to a track day last Monday. Met one of my Japanese friends over there. That guy is pretty fast. As in, he’s turning a 1:09 lap time on his Tuono. He gave me some tips, mainly things like hitting the Apex on a few of the corners. Even though sometimes we feel or think we are hitting them, from an outside point of view, we aren’t close. Talked about “closing the gap” which I think he means (Japanese is his first language) as you approach the apex you have to get as close to it as possible, so you “close” the gap as you get it, you start opening, or moving away onto the line that you will take next. Most of the talking that day was around a proper line. On my last session I managed 3 or 4 1:29 laps. That’s 2 seconds faster than my previous best and 3 seconds faster than my average best. So I finally beat my current goal of beating 1:30 on a 250. I did a track day he very next day. Was still sore, so that probably wasn’t a good idea. I also only managed to pull a 1:32, my “average” lap time. I now know I can beat my goal of 1:30. How to get consistent? Once I get my consistency of 1:29, my end goal, which is 1:25 is what I’ll be striving for. I’m basing that arbitrary number of a very fast 250 racers videos that I’m sure I’ve mentioned to you guys, but 1:25 seems reasonable for a none racer guy like me. How do you guys stay consistent? When do you when you think you are doing everything 100% correctly and most efficiently? Remember I’m in japan and English speaking help is far and few in between.
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