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Old 10-18-2017, 10:37 PM   #1
Alyda
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Someone please tell me this is not a decreasing radius turn

https://goo.gl/maps/q6Q4kWa29rD2

I hope this isnít off topic, but there have been A LOT of crashes in this corner. My friends have been calling it a difficult turn because they think itís decreasing radius. Thatís not what I see at all. I see a shallow right hander just before it (direction is heading towards Palmdale), a very short straight and then a sharper left. I believe that the reason why riders crash (in almost exactly the same spot, thereís even a memorial) is because theyíre going too fast, but also cutting the previous turn, trying to make it as straight as possible and then donít go wide enough to properly see the upcoming left hander. Theyíre essentially turning in too early, running wide, then they either target fixate, or generally panic, stand the bike up and ride straight into the guard rail. I myself donít like this turn, maybe because of what Iíve seen, but I also stay as wide as possible until I get myself through it. I donít think just ďgoing too fastĒ is the only factor in these crashes, I think itís also a bad line and generally poor planning and obviously lack of skill to get yourself out of this mess/riding above your limit and leaving no room for error. Iíve done quite a few track days and Iím about to take CSS this weekend and I feel like a hook turn could save you (if you knew how to do it).

I just donít see this as a decreasing radius turn, and I care enough to know why riders crash here so I donít end up doing so myself (this corner or another unfamiliar/less familiar corner).
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Old 10-18-2017, 10:47 PM   #2
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I think in the strictest sense it is a decreasing radius turn, as it starts gently then tightens up. But you're pretty much right about everything else. The thing about any tightening turn like this is that you must commit and on the street you often 1. can't see through the turn to know this sometimes and 2. don't have the option to apex on the inside since it's a two way road and not a track.

Very not surprised that riders get wide eyes and run off to the right. Awful place to to even go at 6/10ths pace. Who knows how lazy an oncoming car is about lane discipline too.
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Old 10-18-2017, 10:53 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FightingChance View Post
I think in the strictest sense it is a decreasing radius turn, as it starts gently then tightens up. But you're pretty much right about everything else. The thing about any tightening turn like this is that you must commit and on the street you often 1. can't see through the turn to know this sometimes and 2. don't have the option to apex on the inside since it's a two way road and not a track.

Very not surprised that riders get wide eyes and run off to the right. Awful place to to even go at 6/10ths pace. Who knows how lazy an oncoming car is about lane discipline too.
Yeah, I might agree that thereís MAYBE 1 or 2 degrees of decreasing radius turn here, but in all honesty if you canít navigate this, then you shouldnít be able to navigate a freeway on ramp (clearly you would be going much slower and probably KNOW that it decreases, I digress) but I still wouldnít place this in the category of decreasing radius turns, unless you turned in too early and MADE it tighten up. Even this seems to prove my point: https://imgur.com/a/zNUVw
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Old 10-18-2017, 10:58 PM   #4
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Hm, that circle graphic is pretty good.

I think two things happen (that contribute to a greater amount of crashes than one expects) 1. Riders start cooking on that straight before the turn and 2. the mountain blocks a look through to see where the turn ends/exit begins.
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Old 10-18-2017, 11:04 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FightingChance View Post
Hm, that circle graphic is pretty good.

I think two things happen (that contribute to a greater amount of crashes than one expects) 1. Riders start cooking on that straight before the turn and 2. the mountain blocks a look through to see where the turn ends/exit begins.
I completely agree. Add riding like youíre on a track (fast, but without the extra width and almost no runoff) and youíve got a recipe for disaster. Even if you KNOW this corner, you have to trust that cars/other vehicles havenít crossed over the line for some reason (as you said).

Essentially a large group of my friend frequent this road and that turn, and plenty of them were going the same speed as a new guy who crashed. So I wanted to analyze this turn for my own sake and I think Iíve understood it well. I know of 3 crashes in that turn in just the past 10 days. It just seems to me thereís never a single reason why you crash, but more often a series of bad decisions, and itís easy to blame the most apparent one or even the road.
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Old 10-19-2017, 07:12 AM   #6
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I'm no Kenny Roberts but I've never even given that turn a second thought.

However I push my apex as deep into the turn as possible on the street and throw my bike into the corner at the last second.

I think people are just initiating their turn in far too early on that corner or they're already in a bad position near the double yellow instead of being at the outside portion of the lane, looking at the map it does seem tricky from above as it looks like a gentle curve before you get close to the turn out.
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Old 10-19-2017, 07:17 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aphex View Post
I think people are just initiating their turn in far too early on that corner or they're already in a bad position near the double yellow instead of being at the outside portion of the lane, looking at the map it does seem tricky from above as it looks like a gentle curve before you get close to the turn out.
This is exactly what I think people who crash at this turn are doing. I believe itís fairly common for most riders to turn in too early, trying to avoid running wide but then ultimately run wide later in the turn.
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