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Old 03-22-2019, 11:32 PM   #1
Miruri
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I hate crashing

I am so tired of crashing! Today was a complete fluke! Second session, at button willow following behind my husband who always takes a slow warmup regardless of what group he is in. We were both running Q4's. I made it to cotton corners following his line up the hill and the rear came out from me! I spent the whole day watching everyone race around having fun while I nursed my ego and considered the potential expenses for repairing the duc.

So for you seasoned track day riders and racers who have gone down a few (third time on track for me), how do you keep going?

Also a personal question, how many of you have experienced a shoulder injury as a result from a crash on track?
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Old 03-23-2019, 05:41 AM   #2
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I too went down on Q4's at track. Fourth session of the day at Chuckwalla. Made it to "crash mountain" front end tucked. Wasn't even at speed. Q4's are great tires once their warm but they need 2 full laps to warm up. Luckily only cosmetic damage and bruised ego!!! Using warmers now and switched to Bridgestone R11's. Couldn't be happier. Q4's are great tires but if your in A group or fast in B group they have limitations. I almost high sided with traction control on. They get greasy after 20 minutes if your doing open sessions. Not dedicated track tires like a true DOT. I decided for the same price as Q4's the R11's would be better. Now I wouldn't ride them on the street unless it's warm or hot out and you get them up to temp first. Once warm though I didn't use tire warmers and took it easy for a lap or so and no problems at all. I chalked it up to a lesson learned and moved on. After the first session out on the R11's it was all good!~
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Old 03-23-2019, 08:08 AM   #3
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I think you need a donut to help you feel better.

https://www.socalsportbikes.org/foru...d.php?t=473660
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Old 03-23-2019, 11:40 AM   #4
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I can recall only crashing 4 times on a road bike but lost track of crashes when I rode off-road!

Three of the 4 crashes I had were all traction related, whether it was too much lean angle or too much braking, all happened when traction was questionable and while on public roads. To me this meant I just needed to be more careful and thus I didn't feel apprehensive about riding again. So no psychological issues to overcome.

The last crash however happened on an freeway off ramp I have taken probably thousands of times over the course of nearly 20 years of living in the OC, as this is the off ramp I take coming home on a majority of the times I ride that particular freeway.

My recollection of the event, I used the same speed, same line, essentially the same manner I've done those many times before and out of nowhere, I found myself on the ground! After I got up and situated, a CHP officer came round and offered to walk the curve with me to see if we could see anything that might have been on the road that would have caused it. Although there might have been something, we couldn't identify anything for certain. He even add that sometimes these things just happen.

After replaying this in my head over and over I could not come up with anything other than "$hit happens". As you said, it was a fluke.

The facts are this:
Tires were almost new, barely a thousands miles on them, if that. (Bridgestone S21)
Did a track day and two pretty aggressive sport rides on them, including the one I was coming back from.
Tires were warm, just rode over 150 miles on the freeway coming home from a sport ride.
Pavement appeared clean and no wet or oily spots.
Bike was in proper working order, no known issues at the time.

Based on that, I assessed the situation and came to the conclusion, that it could very well have been me that caused the crash but in my heart I felt that I did not do anything that I could think of that would have caused me to crash. With all the data it would actually be the most likely answer but I personally feel I did everything my training and practices said I should have done.

So I took it as just bad luck and when the time came to get on the bike again, I had the same confidence I did prior to my crash. For me, thinking I did all the right things made me feel that I wasn't at fault and that I should once again ride just like I always have.

Although crashing is typically at the back of my mind, I cannot lie and say that it didn't pop up to the fore once in a while after the crash but I was able to push it to the back again by just believing in my riding ability and trusting in my tires and motorcycle. Pushing over the fear boundary is hard sometimes but I find that if you don't then eventually you will quit doing whatever it is you are doing. Riding is such a big part of my life that I just won't let fear get the better of me.

Now that being said, if I found that I was crashing too frequently, I would have to reassess certain things, my riding, my tire choices (for the type of riding I do) and my motorcycle itself. To me all these things make up being able to ride and come home unscathed.

Hope this post was helpful.
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Old 03-23-2019, 01:03 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgbeard View Post
I think you need a donut to help you feel better.

https://www.socalsportbikes.org/foru...d.php?t=473660
I saw this post RG =)
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Old 03-23-2019, 01:09 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panigale View Post
I too went down on Q4's at track. Fourth session of the day at Chuckwalla. Made it to "crash mountain" front end tucked. Wasn't even at speed. Q4's are great tires once their warm but they need 2 full laps to warm up. Luckily only cosmetic damage and bruised ego!!! Using warmers now and switched to Bridgestone R11's. Couldn't be happier. Q4's are great tires but if your in A group or fast in B group they have limitations. I almost high sided with traction control on. They get greasy after 20 minutes if your doing open sessions. Not dedicated track tires like a true DOT. I decided for the same price as Q4's the R11's would be better. Now I wouldn't ride them on the street unless it's warm or hot out and you get them up to temp first. Once warm though I didn't use tire warmers and took it easy for a lap or so and no problems at all. I chalked it up to a lesson learned and moved on. After the first session out on the R11's it was all good!~
Lesson learned, Im getting a set of new warmers regardless of what tire I run. Thank you for sharing your story I can relate.
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Old 03-25-2019, 11:41 AM   #7
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I've crashed a lot but only dislocated my shoulder. Most times I just pick the bike up and keep going. I learned to keep some common spares with me just in case.

One time I crashed at Sears Point on the first session Sat morning and was out the rest of the weekend bc I had an unplanned yard sale...that sucked.

For me, identifying why I crashed helps me to move on from it. I also found that the sooner I can get back on a bike, the quicker I can 'overcome' the fear of crashing again.
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Old 03-26-2019, 11:05 PM   #8
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Hello Mi,

Being Honest here, I haven't really read enough to issue any kind of judgement.

I've ridden ButtonWillow a couple times - it's an interesting track with a few odd corners. Still, there are a lot of things about this post that, if I'm candid, don't tell the complete story.

If I can...
Can you please tell me more about the day? When did the crash happen? What was the track surface temperature? When were you out? Did you warm up? What group were you in? What bike/Tires/Suspension settings were you running? What was your mindset? Where do you live? (ie: did you arrive the night before and ride on a full nights rest?). Did you sleep right? Did you ride out or trailer?

i'd love to point a finger at "the perfect moment of failure" but really, I can't. Riding means recognizing dozens of simultaneous variables all at once. How to react to each one is different.

Please, can you elaborate in painful detail, what the day and event was like? what was your mindset?

Crashing sux (i've broken my share of bones). I don't know you but I'd rather you not do it again...
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Old 03-28-2019, 07:47 AM   #9
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Glad that you're ok
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Old 03-28-2019, 03:27 PM   #10
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I made it to cotton corners following his line up the hill and the rear came out from me!

How is your throttle control ? Did you get too greedy with the gas while at lean angle, subconsciously trying to keep up with Dustin ? Without data you might never know. But with the rear coming around on you, I would bet you overloaded the traction limits of your back tire (and 90% of the time its with the throttle). Key point is traction = lean angle + throttle opening. You have to give up one to get more of the other while remaining in the limitations of available traction. Work on opening the gas SLOWER (while you pick up the bike) even if you lose touch with hubby. Ride your own ride. Check yourself before you become over-eager and wreck yourself. Learn from your failures.
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Old 03-28-2019, 06:48 PM   #11
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Crashing is part of the sport, I am not implying that crashing is ok but it happens.
Ive learned to not blame the equipment for any of my crashes except for actual mechanical stuff. If you know that tires are cold and the conditions are not ideal its up to you to take it slow and take the time to warm them up before you start pushing the pace. "Pushing the pace" is relative to your ability, someone that rides around at 2:20+ at Buttonwillow can likely do that with warm tires, 1/2 a lap to a full lap before they start to push to their pace. To produce faster lap times the tires need a little more warming up maybe 1 1/2 to 2 laps for us mortals. Just a guesstimate on times dont take it literal gents.

At your pace you should invest in some tire warmers, they will give you more quality riding time and tire pressures will remain more constant. Have you tried slicks?

Fix the bike up and get back out on track!
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Old 04-14-2019, 01:45 AM   #12
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To answer some of the questions.

1199 Panigale 13'
Stock suspension just went in to have the sag checked with Mike from Kyle Racing.
Dunlop Q4's not on tire warmers, PSI 32/26

My rear tire warmer is broke so I switched to the best street tires I could get since I still ride these bikes on the street: Supercorsa SP V2's, Roso Corsa, or Q4's. I prefer slicks when I can afford them SC2's/SC1's or Dunlop N-Techs.

Arrived the evening prior, slept outside, temp felt 68-70ish hard to remember.

Bike is fine, works, runs, just needs new plastics.

A Group - I'm typically around 2:00-2:05 minute lap in 13A configuration.
Second Session, first lap out. Feeling was of caution, I'm not warmed up yet and a little timid, its the first time I get the Duc all day.

I know my tires aren't in great condition on a siting lap especially at 10am in the morning. Obviously too much lean and more than likely the front just wasn't warm enough yet to hold the lean I was carrying. You figure there was only one decent breaking zone to heat the tire up just before going up the hill. Maybe a little too much throttle control, but that has never been a reason for my previous crashes to my knowledge. It was slow, puck was dragging, things felt fine, and then slide. Ho Hum...

Oh well its all fun and part of the sport. Confidence is shot but it should improve with more saddle time. Thank you all for your questions and insight.

Last edited by Miruri; 04-14-2019 at 01:48 AM.
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Old 04-14-2019, 12:12 PM   #13
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Talking

a donut yesterday would have been helpful? Maybe?


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